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Author
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Topic: Lafayette LX4000 on ebay
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PsychUp
Member
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posted 09-20-2005 01:16 PM
  
I am selling my LX4000 on ebay. Here is the info:
Lafayette LX4000 Computerized Polygraph
Professional Polygraph with Software and Attachments Item number: 5811182960
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rnelson
Member
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posted 09-21-2005 09:54 AM
Please don't sell this instrument to anyone who is not a polygraph examiner. I would be somewhat uncomfortable making a general or open sale offering for this instrument. Isn't there an sale or auction section of this website? r IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 09-21-2005 02:36 PM
Hey R,We attempted to start an auction here at one point, however, I did not fully think through all the ramifications and decided to let it die for the time being. I do however, help folks sell their instruments through my newsletter...which has been very successful and it is ALWAYS to another examiner. I take a small fee for initiating that. ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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PsychUp
Member
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posted 09-21-2005 03:57 PM
Although I would prefer to see the instrument go to a licenced examiner, it is beyond my control at this point. I have advertised this item several times before with no interest before finally listing it on ebay. I contemplated this and after seeing that several professional units have been listed I decided to do it. It is however an interesting ethical point to be debated. What items should and should not be sold to non-examiners? Does price and quality dictate this or should it apply to all polygraph instrumentation?I would also like to point out that it is highly unlikely that anyone other than a examiner would spend the $$$ on this item. IP: Logged |
rnelson
Member
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posted 09-21-2005 05:06 PM
< it is highly unlikely that anyone other than a examiner would spend the $$$ on this item.>... except some very deviant, highly motivated malcreant! anyone think George or some FOG would enjoy having an LX4000 and software? I understand have cash tied up in non-productive equipment. Rules in my household presently prohibit purchasing any equipment or clinical books that don't earn their keep. Imagine... "uh, no honey, that's not new, I've had that for some time..." (of course I never keep secrets from people who love or trust me)
r
[This message has been edited by rnelson (edited 09-21-2005).] IP: Logged |
detector
Administrator
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posted 09-22-2005 12:17 PM
I agree,In case you didn't pickup on it psychup, I'm pretty sure I can help you get your instrument sold to an examiner. I don't ask for the half the fee or anything, just enough to cover my time and energy. So you can't say you didn't have any other options  All I can do is offer. ------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator
http://www.polygraphplace.com
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Barry C
Member
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posted 09-22-2005 12:30 PM
Now that he's got it on the aution block, he's got to sell it to the highest bidder (examiner or not) unless he has a reserve that isn't met. Otherwise he can be bounced from ebay, and technically sued for breach of a contract.IP: Logged |
J.B. McCloughan
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 10:22 AM
There are restrictions on the sale of a polygraph, as stated on Lafayette's www site:U. S. Department of Commerce Polygraph Export Restrictions quote:
"The U.S. Department of Commerce requires an export license for any Polygraph System shipment with an ULTIMATE destination other than: Australia, Japan, New Zealand or any NATO Member Countries excluding the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland. It is against U.S. Law to ship a Polygraph System to any other country without an Export License. If the ULTIMATE destination is not one of the above listed countries, contact Lafayette Instrument for the required license application forms."
My personal lay opinion is that because of potential risk of civil and criminal prosecution, which can amount to far more than the price of the sale item, I would suggest not selling this item at public auction. Even if the buyer is the one who exports the polygraph, you may still be held liable. I think ebay has exceptions to their auctions, as listed in their end user agreements.
[This message has been edited by J.B. McCloughan (edited 09-23-2005).] IP: Logged |
PsychUp
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 10:53 AM
I am familiar with the export restrictions for this instrumentation. I have clearly stated that I will only sell to US residents and have restricted the auction appropriately. However, the only person liable for illegal export of this equipmant would be the entity that does it (not previous owners). If this were not the case polygraph manuafacturers would be held liable for any device that ends up being exported to a restricted company. The same rule applies to gun manufacturers. It is impossible to control possession and transfer of goods after sale in a free country.At this point it apperars that only licenced examiners are bidding on the system.
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PsychUp
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 10:56 AM
Detector,Thank you for your offer. But as someone previously commented, I am bound to sell it at auction at this point.
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 12:28 PM
Psychup,I have had numerous Ebay auctions that I was bidding on end early because the seller cancelled the auction. Ebay has told me there is nothing they can do if the seller ends the auction early. When you end an auction early you have a drop down menu of why you are ending early including "Item is no longer available". I too have ended an auction early when I learned that Boy George was the high bidder. I did not get any grief from Ebay for doing it either. I now know that I can simply block certain bidders instead of ending the auction. Bottom line is that it looks like you have a high reserve on the unit and the reserve may not be met anyway but good luck!(If you are worried about it, Email me and I will give you our inside phone number to Ebay security and you can check with them. Ted IP: Logged |
J.B. McCloughan
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 01:54 PM
I am not a lawyer, but I think you need to read this, Don’t Let This Happen To You 2005.pdf , as I personally do not believe that it agrees with your assertion that you are not liable. More specifically noted on page 10, paragraphs two(2) “ Responsible Parties” and three(3) “ Consequences for Violating the EAR” of the document and segmented for relevance with emphasis added, quote:
The EAR place legal responsibility on persons who have information, authority or function relevant to carrying out transactions subject to the EAR. Violations of the EAR are subject to both criminal and administrative penalties. In some cases, where there has been willful violation of the EAR, violators may be subject to both criminal and administrative penalties. However, for most administrative violations, there is no intent requirement, which means that administrative cases can be brought in a much wider variety of circumstances than criminal cases. Fines for export violations can reach up to $1 million per violation in criminal cases, $11, 000 per violation in most administrative cases, and $120,000 per violation in certain administrative cases involving national security issues.
[This message has been edited by J.B. McCloughan (edited 09-23-2005).] IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 02:10 PM
JBI tend to agree with you. I have been interviewed twice now by agents from the department of commerce. The office of homeland security also has a unit that investigates suspected export violations. Both times it was specifically related to the export of polygraph equipment. They do not play around and take the exportation of polygraph equipment very seriously! Ted IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 02:29 PM
Ted,Commerce might take the export of polygraph equipment seriously, and well they should, because it's the law. But the law really doesn't make a helluva lot of sense in this day and age when the U.S. no longer has a monopoly on the manufacture of polygraph instruments. We're locking the barn door after the horses have bolted. What was it that Boy George was trying to buy from you? Inquiring minds want to know! ------------------
John 8:32
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 03:11 PM
Polyops,Yes it was. I never had any equipment to sell but he did buy a few books before I realised it was him. He buys the stuff and has it shipped to "Dr. Drew" to be forwarded. Ted IP: Logged |
polyops
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 03:23 PM
Ted, Ted, Ted,Trading with the enemy, eh? Does that make you a kinda sorta FOG? Just kidding! I suppose there's no harm done. It just goes to show that if you sell something on eBay, you can never know who your high bidder might be. ------------------
John 8:32
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 04:30 PM
Polyops,Yes, I am a FOG (Foe of George). Check out the thread I started on this board on 01/08/04 titled George Maschke on Ebay. It has all the bloody details. Ted IP: Logged |
Barry C
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 04:57 PM
ebay has no duty to make you sell the instrument, but under contract law, YOU are mandated to sell the item to the highest bidder. It's not going to happen on low-end stuff, but theoretically, if you sell it to a third party (not on ebay), the highest bidder (if no reserve, which you have it appears) could sue you for the difference because you sold his property. Moreover, a creative lawyer would probably try to sue you for conversion. He could even go after the new owner, who could also sue you. What a mess, huh? That's why the lawyers have all the money! (I just love the law.)IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 05:17 PM
PsychUp,And there you have it! Directly from your friends on the board. You my friend, are screwed. The bidders are going to sue you, the Feds are going to indict you, Ebay is going to cancel your account- before they sue you, and Ralphie boy is going to raise your fees. You won't be able to park in front of your house today when you get home because the T.V. news trucks will be fighting the government surveillance vehicles for parking space.As an added bonus, you will have your picture posted on George's site! I would just take that dang 4000 and chuck it into the ocean and forget this whole nightmare! Ted PS. Please don't email me anything for a couple of months. IP: Logged |
Barry C
Member
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posted 09-23-2005 06:42 PM
That is a great synopsis!I get some of my best laughs here! IP: Logged |
sackett
Moderator
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posted 09-24-2005 05:36 AM
Ted,now that's funny! I don't care who you are.... LOL Jim IP: Logged |
PsychUp
Member
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posted 09-24-2005 01:43 PM
Thats it! All you guys will be getting the following email from me, which I will leave conspicuously on my Hard Drive:"Our operation is proceeding well. Our friends are very pleased with the goods received. Proceed with phase II. - Your friend in the cause."
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